@KelseyGreenberg Yes, vote for Obama

@Othni3l haha wow what?

Wow!

@kenstheman01 Thanks man.

@adworld You are brilliant and very educated. Why aren't there more people like you in my life?

@adworld haha! you almost forced me to break the truce - but I am persevering here! :)) the ironic part here is that I an neither Dem or Rep! .)))

@PONDERTHIS loool, truce takes hold now;)

...it and keep the Clinton tax level. I want to hear concrete things from Romney! Like what's the plan on the big 3, NOTHING!

Everything else is people yelling fire, where there's non.

@PONDERTHIS Again, you say the GOP will not touch the big 3, exactly my point. So, everything else about the debt is just lunatics yelling fire?

600+ billion spent, i mean, follow Ran Paul's ideas on the military, see we aren't in the 40's or the 70's, no need to keep large standing army, where few good soldiers can people destroy whole of a continent with few bombs.

You talk about the debt like it's survival of the fittest, like we are in a doomsday, exactly how conservative media use people to get angry from the unseen. Nothing there, just pure angry people who have no idea, see they say and yell, DEBT, DEBT, DEBT and when you tell them, give back your social security, they will say what? Yeah, not mine! Or hands of my social security. Again, as long as conservative argue about debt and they will not do away with the big 3, i just laugh at them.

What martial law? No need, just increase tax on the wealthy, you can lower the debt, not completely get rid of it, but lower i

@adworld @KelseyGreenberg Okay you two, we nailed this, so we'll call it a truce. There is a balance that needs to be managed, and there are some decision that will ultimately be a means to an end - good or bad. All we can do is play within the confines of our constitution, and hope or pray for the best. Anything else will be a revolution! Back to being a GMR convert - and rating photos ;)))))

@adworld Of which $200B is for operations.

The remaining are for direct payments to our force (pay our troops, house our troops, construction, etc...).

So lets's cut a little from the $200B, but wait, democrates were saying enough is enough--no more cuts. Then Obama, stop the wars! FACT#5, he can't because of our national interests are too high to put at risk here in America. So fight abroad! Sad, but true!

@adworld You probably meant $600 billion on defense?

@adworld Did you say we sepnd $6 billion on Defense? Wow! If I recall, we spent $104 Billion on 'debt' Interest for the first 6 months in 2012. Tha equate to over $200 Billion in interest payments for 2012. And that is at a menial 2% interest rate. Damn, what would happen if our debt was set at 6% like in 2000? So @adworld, where must we begin to cut? The $6B on defense or the $200B on debt?

@adworld It's law, so to get rid of them will require a majority in both houses or some unprecedented politics. Do you really expect the Republicans to achieve this majority? No way! Second, the public would go nuts, so don't expect your Big 3 to go away anytime soon - Donkeys or Elephants :) One thing is for sure, if we can no longer pay Interest on our debts, we will lose credibility, ratings, and our monopoly as the reserve currency. The everything will be MOOT! Can you say Martial Law? Oh, I forgot, not in the USA.

huh, do you know how much we spend on defense? How about over 6 billion, that's a year, how much did will Obamacare cost? Per CBO, which had 9000 billion original price tag, will now cost around 1,496 trillion for 10 YEARS. Yeah, ten years. So, saying defense spending going to make a dent is just not up to par with reality.

Fourth, the nation has no soul if it can't stand by its obligation to the needy? I for one am a huge supporter of our men and women in the armed forces - past and present - make no mistake about it. To cut retirements to there hero's would be a travesty. As would it be to cut social services and welfare to those who are 'really' in need. Now with that said, when we as a nation can no longer afford to provide these benefits, tough decisions have to be made. I hear your roar, cut Defense Spending. The problem is cut much deeper than this. With over 70+% of our federal budget going to your Big 3, and my Interest, how is Defense cutting going to make a dent? FACT#4 If we don't reduce our debt now, Interest alone will consume all of the Fed's ability to provide any of these programs - in law we call this a moot point! So, when Obama took office the public debt was $6+Trillion, and now the public debt stand at $10.8 Trillion. With total debt equalling $15.6 Trillion as I write this.

@PONDERTHIS lool, yeah, u know it;)

These are all "will add", "will increase", :they should", where's the beef man, the beef, nothing! The Congressional Budget Office where grading of any passed legislation comes from, hasn't said it will increase anything (this is the future, not happened yet). I trust the CBO.

True, the SS funds has been used for other projects, but it has full payment to support retires to 2037+. I mentioned the big 3 'cause we Dems want them to stay, so what's stopping the GOP/Romney to come out today and say, get rid of them,, even just one of them? Ask that yourself and let me knw;)

true, the other side obviously hate women, disgusting fucktards.

@KelseyGreenberg So I knew this wouldn't end once @adworld logged in :)

First, Obama's Healthcare plan has everything to do with the debt. FACT #1 It adds $18+ Trillion (Yes Trillion) to the Unfunded Liability.

Second, Spending on wars, Medicare, equipment, etc? FACT#2 The Democrates balked at Defense Spending cuts last year and Medicare was created when Congress had a DEMOCRATIC Supermajority. You mention the big 3 and Defense Spending, but you missed a giant - Interest. Yes, Interest is also a 'mandatory' payment by law. Now tell me what our interest payment on domestic and foreign debt is?

Third, Social Security funding is a self-funding benefit, however, why did Obama recently say that if the debt ceiling isn't increased, I cannot guarantee these checks will go out? FACT#3 The funds have been used for other programs and need to be repayed - another Unfunded Liability! So much for your pay as you go comment!

....corners of the world. The debt is increasing, 'cause we have an empire to maintain, an empire created by those elected by these some people now complaining about money spend on retires, a promise made to our grandparents.

..is their rigidity to see who created all these problems? It was a republican president, period! They act like and say, what? Lets just ignore 8yrs of harsh reality, 8yrs of nothing but national tragedy. Bush will forever be the man behind alot o the problems we have now, but talk to any GOPer it's like Bush never existed. How come i never heard anything about the national debt under Bush? How come you have all these teabaggers coming out of the woodwork after they lost the election, like they were all in sleep most of a decade? This is just too funny to me, how can a 40%+ of the population think so crazy stuff to link Obama to any of the problems about the debt, when i can swear massive majority of them will support spending on the military?

I tell you why? They are dogmatic, poorly informed, poor educated, poorly unaware there's world out there in which there's more competition for resources. A world which our money are spent daily by a military which are located far corn

......to the rich, right now stop the tax cuts to the rich, remember the Bush tax cuts, yes, let it expire. And increase tax on anyone making over 250k. (i'm few years away of making double this, so, i'm saying YES, tax me as well;).

On your other point about social issues and debt! How can one address the check government pays to disabled person and national debt on the same level is beyond my thinking. National soul of a nation is lost when a nation does not fulfill its obligation to the needy, which means as a nation we take care of those unfortunate, that we stay truth to promises we made to our veterans and our retires. So, the cost of social welfare is something i will never apologize for and worthy spending. You can never talk both of them on the same breath, at least while ignoring the root cause of the problem, which they are not. Nation has no soul, if it doesn't stand behind its commitments which it already made.

Second, the problem with conservatives as a whole i

...the retires will get their checks.

So, what's left is the other 50% that contribute to the debt. I will show you a liar, if you show me any fact sheet or any argument that will show mathematically reduction of debt, without touching the big 3 or the military? If Romney comes out tomorrow and says, cut one of these, he will have my vote, i knw he wouldn't, he will lose to Obama easily, 'cause no one who gets their check from the government or state governors will agree with it. Why? Cause no one will ever touch these, NO ONE, no republican will ever touch these, never. Everything else is just hot air. Again, i will show you a liar if one says they can lower the debt without cutting the big 3 and the military. This will not happen, so by coming up other areas to blame for the debt isn't gonna work with me.

So, what's the solution? Work on the military first, no more adventures around the world, no more useless military hardware.

And on tax, no more subsidies to t

...Their only goal is to try to win elections, nothing more. For a republican, the national debt is only bigger issue when you talk about a waffles, like aid to states, funds to planned parenthood. For them, the national debt is only the social welfare, not the military, not medicaid and medicare.

So, here is what this means, to get rid of the national debt, look no other place than entitlements, wars, tax cuts! Here are the facts, the big 3 (medicare, medicaid, and social security*) which are close to 50% of government spending. AND I AGREE WITH ALL OF THEM AND DONT THINK THEY SHOULDN'T BE REDUCED OR CUT!

See, i put *star on social security, there's a reason for that, SS hasn't contributed much to the national debt, the reason why it's there is that it will soon if the government doesn't collect more as it spends and here is where tax increase is needed. You know, SS is pay as you go system, so as long as we, the current workers are paying, the retires will get their chec

@PONDERTHIS US econonmy is so complicated to fault on one person or his 3yrs in office. Lool, i like how you jump into the health care issue when talking about this, even though all of Obama's healthcare costs will only take place in 2014;) and has nothing to do with the debt.

Ok, here is the problem, you want to talk about why the debt is increasing? First, do you know how much Iraq war cost(ing) us (tell me one benefit of this war, one please?) Do you know how much we spend building nukes, warships, tanks, and war machine to maintain an empire? Do you know how much SS*/medicaid/medicare cost? Do you know how much the Bush tax cuts took away the national treasure? Do you know the cost of prescription drug overhaul under bush? What about our nation defense to maintain bases around the world? Com'on, if you want to get the bottom of this and if GOPers want to do something about it, they should look at these, but i know they wouldn't, 'cause that's not their goal. Their only go

@KelseyGreenberg Yep, individual beliefs transcend politics - and for you it's all about right and wrong - your beliefs - as opposed to someone elses belief. In the end, it is what makes humanity. Good and bad! I internalized with your beliefs well before you did I am sure, but it does not excuse the fact that you have scapegoated Republicans, with a mere reference to candidates. Both Democrats and Repblicans can be reduced to individuals who are Misogynistic - a corollary being Rush Limbaugh and Bill Maher, where some democrats refuse to criticize Maher simply because he is a comedian - when both should be abhored for practicing Misogyny.

Okay, I am going to revert back to my Alter Ego (we both share) – a GMR fanatic! It is much easier, as I find it much more satifying to exhibit my Alter Ego tendencies than my "Pondering" tendencies. Heck, I am still a kid - I only act like an adult :)

BTW, I viewed your GMR youtube, and you are quite animated. You did a great job - a

@PONDERTHIS Sure. However, the republican party has proven itself to be extremely homophobic, prejudice against the latino community and nearly misogynistic (if not just least reverting back by decades in the quest for feminism). So, any disapproval for Obama aside, the current replican candidates and party would not do anything close to that - but in fact the opposite.
Give me a republican candidate who holds "conservative fiscal ideals" while promising marriage equality, immigration reform that doesn't rip apart families, and who promises to never mention my reproductive rights as though they have any say in the matter... and I would keep my mouth shut or at least would have no "outcry of insanity" as I do now.
Again, I do support Obama - but the point of this post was more as a reference AGAINST the current republican candidates.

@KelseyGreenberg But, if by fixing all of your financial woes results in the social equality you are envisioning, would it be worth it? Especially if you cannot achieve it otherwise? Disclaimer noted!

@PONDERTHIS I wish they were not mutually exclusive. GOD i wish they were not. But i can NOT wish for the election of someone who is going throw basic human rights out the window BEFORE even addressing fiscal issues. It is a deal breaker right there.

*Disclaimer this is an exaggeration* - if a modern day Hitler were to run for President, and he would 100% guarantee that we would be back at the top of the fiscal food chain and fix all of our financial problems... I would still not support him as our president... for I hope what would be obvious reasons.

@KelseyGreenberg Well, unfortunately, the value you hold dear, and the value you hold second, are not mutually exclusive - a contradiction. They both have to be adressed in the same context, so holding fiscal policy at bay, in lieu of progressing social equality, will ultimately lead to the same end as I mentioned supra.

@PONDERTHIS Alas I cannot even get into this... my picture was more or less focused on the republican counterparts to obama right now... as the issues they represent to me are much bigger than our fiscal problems.

Fiscal problems, to me, come second to social issues focusing on women's rights, gay rights, and minority rights ... which the republican candidates all seem to want to do away with.

However, I agree with your last statement that neither "democrats nor republicans' can deal with our problems right now... at least while not cooperating with one another

@KelseyGreenberg @adworld Lastly, then I will get off my tirade. Neither Democrats, nor Replicans can deal with this problem because both parties are inept, practicing Cronyism - no need for euphemisms here. So whichever party wins, curbing spending better be on top of the agenda - because the ability for America to generate revenues has been completely stifled!

@KelseyGreenberg @adworld And while I applaud Obama for trying to bridge the gaps between rich and poor, his socialist agenda to nationalize Health Care, the Economy, etc., will only accelerate its self-destruction as it is inevitable that the UF's will saturate our future ability to mitigate our debt, especially if the Euro, Yuan, or some other form of currency replaces the dollar as the worlds reserve currency - then it is inevitable! And while I am not an Infallibist, the facts in itself can sure make me look like one. :) BTW, my mom helped me write this as there is no way I could have contructed such an infallible argument - no way! :)

@KelseyGreenberg @adworld and while our local governments amortize the UF over 20-30-40 years by law, our Fed gov't is more lenient using somewhere close to 75 years. So couple the current obligations with the future obligations (yes the UF liabilities) and there is a pressing need for the Fed to STOP spending - and follow the leads of some of the some of the local governments. @KelseyGreenberg I believe that you live in San Diego. The citizen movement to halt defined benefit plans, thus eating into their UF is not a knee-jerk reaction to be recent Local gov't bankruptcies - it is reality because San Diego over promised benefits and can not sustain - same as our Fed gov't over promised and cannot sustain (cont)

@KelseyGreenberg @adworld Okay college grads, explain this to me: The Naional Debt will be $16 Trillion soon, with Unfunded Liabilities (UF) is close to $124 Trillion - yes $124 Trillion! To help you both understand what UF is, I will equate this to what has been in the news lately - government pensions! I am sure that both of you are privy to the sweeping emboldenment of citizen taxpayers across the nation lobbing to stop government pensions in favor of 401K type retirement vehicles. Why? Because some are informed citizens realizing that local gov't pensions carry huge Unfunded Liabilities - for you two college grads - the UF results from gov't promises to its employees. The parallel here is the Obama Health Care Plan (Supreme Court will decide the constitutionality - but not without Obama's coersion), and the many other programs which have to be paid for by our Federal Government. (cont)

@adworld amen

@KelseyGreenberg Thanks:) good people can disagree on politics but one thing we shouldn't really be debating is facts.

@adworld can you come move to CA and be my friend? please and thank you. :) Having you around to be counteract all the unreasonableness would severely improve my quality of life

@PONDERTHIS u and me had this discussion many times, you know as well that, majority of the national debt are led by factors that the president has no control over, like the wars. They weren't his wars! You want to lower it, if people are serious about the debt, they should take a look at the defense budget, but again, no GOPer will ever consider that as source of the biggest contributor and the problem, but the go crazy about few billions spent on social welfare.

They are scary and crazy at the same time. You like more wars, more adventures on social issues, more collapsing banks, go ahead and vote for them.

@KelseyGreenberg Okay! Obama adds approx $5B to our national debt in <4 years, What will happen the next 4 years. USA cannot sustain this level and when Europe and Asia 'blast' the reserve currency, the USA will be screwed!

@KelseyGreenberg they legit do not know what they are talking about at all. it makes me angry!

@AndrewTeam That is what I am saying! I have a few republican friends and they have resolved themselves to another 4 years of Obama because the other options are even less appealing for them. And considering how much anti Obama sentiment there is (honestly like there is for every president... 1/2 of the nation will undoubtably dislike whoever is president) ... that is saying something.

as more of a conservative political prospector even i dont like the candidates. they are ignorant and just down right suck.